Met a flat coated retriever yesterday... - Page 3 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Megora View Post
You could have jokingly told him you thought he had a black golden.
OMG This past spring I was leaving work. It was a nice day, I had my windows down. A car pulls up at a light, it is a convertible, and they have a flat coat in the back seat. The dog makes eye contact with me and gets his tail going. I comment to the driver, "that's a pretty flat coat." The driver replies... "it's not a flat coat, it is a black golden retriever." I KID YOU NOT!!!!

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Isn't a flattie pretty much a black golden retriever or are there numerous differences I don't know about? I ask because I was under the impression that they were closely related.

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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Maxs Mom View Post
OMG This past spring I was leaving work. It was a nice day, I had my windows down. A car pulls up at a light, it is a convertible, and they have a flat coat in the back seat. The dog makes eye contact with me and gets his tail going. I comment to the driver, "that's a pretty flat coat." The driver replies... "it's not a flat coat, it is a black golden retriever." I KID YOU NOT!!!!


*laughs* I would have been waiting for the guy to crack a smile like he was trying to be funny. There are so many flatcoat (flattie?) owners who take mortally-wounded offense over the mistaken identity.

Er, or maybe he rescued the flatcoat and... er... assumed it was a black golden.

- I think flat coats are closer related to labs than they are to goldens. At least that's what I've heard?

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The breed cites in its ancestry the Retriever Proper, a cross-breed emerging from the Large Newfoundland, setter, sheepdog, and spaniel-like water dogs, in addition to various other breeds that have contributed the Flat-Coat’s unique stature and appearance.
Goldens of course came from spaniel-like water dogs, field setters, and.... Russian circus dogs.

Or more seriously -

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The Tweed Water Spaniel had tremendous influence on Tweedmouth’s developing breed, as he bred his original stud "Nous" to "Belle," a Tweed Water Spaniel, to produce four yellow puppies. Later on down the line, cross-breedings integrated Irish Setter, Bloodhound, and more Tweed Water Spaniel to obtain the Golden Retriever we recognize today.


Last edited by Megora; 10-13-2010 at 08:38 AM.
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 11:10 AM
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Country Sports and Country Life - The Golden Retriever






In 1868 Lord Tweedmouth mated a yellow Wavy-Coated retriever (Nous) he had bought from a cobbler in Brighton (bred by Lord Chichester) to a Tweed Water Spaniel (Belle) from Ladykirk on the Tweed. These Tweed Water-Spaniels, rare except in the Border Country, are described by authorities of the time as like a small Retriever, liver-coloured and curly-coated. Lord Tweedmouth methodically line-bred down from this mating between 1868 and 1890, using another Tweed Water-Spaniel, and outcrosses of two black Retrievers, an Irish Setter and a sandy coloured Bloodhound. (It is now known that one of the most influential Kennels in the first part of the century which lies behind all present day Golden Retrievers was founded on stock bred by Lord Tweedmouth.)"

From this description it can be seen that all Golden Retrievers go back to the yellow retriever Nous who himself was obviously the produce of Flat - coated Retrievers.
















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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 11:27 AM
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I know just how you feel MomtoMax. I met a golden at the park and this guys golden was way overweight, easily twice as wide as my boy. He was going on and on about how people only give their goldens one cup of food per feeding...ummmm that would be me. He knew who I was because he said "Hey, you're the lady with the skinny golden". I really wanted to say something but I could see that it would fall on deaf ears.
Instead I felt like I had to defend myself and explained that my boy does get one cup per feeding but that he gets fed twice a day plus treats a few times a day and a snack of frozen dog food in a marrow bone in the evening. I doubt anything I had to say would change his mind on feeding his dog less.
A lady with a fat Golden called Comet skinny once and told me that I should put some weight on him. I WENT OFF on an epic tirade about how he just looks skinny to her because she's used to seeing overweight Goldens that die young and crippled with geriatric disease, like hers probably would if she didn't wake up about it, and that Comet was lean with hard muscle because of his active lifestyle, and had she read the Purina study on healthy weight, and oh, by the way, why couldn't she take hers off the leash like Comet was, was it because she hadn't done any training with her?

I was a real sumbitch about it, but I mean c'mon.

As far as calling people out on their overweight dogs, I've never figured out an effective way to do it with strangers. I figure they'll think I'm just some jerk know-it-all and ignore me, so I don't usually say anything.

When friends' dogs are overweight, I usually bring up the Purina study in a different context, when we're not taking about their dogs or at their house around them. I just say, "so I read this thing on healthy weight and how much healthy time it can add to a dog's life..." etc. Not sure if that's too subtle, but I haven't lost any friendships over it.
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Maxs Mom View Post
OMG This past spring I was leaving work. It was a nice day, I had my windows down. A car pulls up at a light, it is a convertible, and they have a flat coat in the back seat. The dog makes eye contact with me and gets his tail going. I comment to the driver, "that's a pretty flat coat." The driver replies... "it's not a flat coat, it is a black golden retriever." I KID YOU NOT!!!!
Could have been a Golden/Lab mix that came out with a black, GR-type coat.
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 11:31 AM
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It can also help to cite the breed standard. The max for a male GR is 75 lbs. Some healthy boys may be a bit too tall for standard and therefore still healthy at a little more than 75, but once you get towards 85 or 90, the dog is either way, way oversized or is overweight.
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by solinvictus View Post
Country Sports and Country Life - The Golden Retriever









In 1868 Lord Tweedmouth mated a yellow Wavy-Coated retriever (Nous) he had bought from a cobbler in Brighton (bred by Lord Chichester) to a Tweed Water Spaniel (Belle) from Ladykirk on the Tweed. These Tweed Water-Spaniels, rare except in the Border Country, are described by authorities of the time as like a small Retriever, liver-coloured and curly-coated. Lord Tweedmouth methodically line-bred down from this mating between 1868 and 1890, using another Tweed Water-Spaniel, and outcrosses of two black Retrievers, an Irish Setter and a sandy coloured Bloodhound. (It is now known that one of the most influential Kennels in the first part of the century which lies behind all present day Golden Retrievers was founded on stock bred by Lord Tweedmouth.)"

From this description it can be seen that all Golden Retrievers go back to the yellow retriever Nous who himself was obviously the produce of Flat - coated Retrievers.
So... the Flatties are an ancestor of sorts of goldens, before the bloodhound, Irish Setter, and black retrievers (labs?) were thrown in?

And that means my webfooted golden has newfie ancestors way way way back. Cool.

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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 12:12 PM
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i dont say anything to the owners, but if i pet the dog, if its warrented, i will call it a fat ass without any guilty feelings. i think that that sticks in the owners head a little more. makes them think a little more about how others inturprit their dog. if im around a dog that i dont know, ill say, my, youre a heafty boy, or arent you a fattie. its easier to talk to a dog about their weight than the owner. the dog will agree.
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